I Have A Dream Of A National Price Standard...

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general tow		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 595 07/24/2008 09:28 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	Dont be sorry about my luck. I do very well by giving service with up to date equip and professional drivers. My customers expect and get this from us. One thing that I do not understand is why would you or anyone else operate at a level way below what can be obtained. If you quote say 30$ tows and the big co is getting 50$, why not raise the bar to within 5$ to 10$ of what he is getting. You can do less tows for more money with less expense on your end. On the other hand, you run cheap, get a larger volume than you can handle, make them wait with slow service, they cant or dont want to wait, they then call the other co and he makes the profit. Raise the bar and make us all appear to be more professional instead of a bunch of scrappers fighting over a dollar. Steve
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tlw towing		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 07/24/2008 14:15	See you are assuming I operate at a level below what can be contained. And how is raising prices going to make us appear more professional? And your assuming I do not have proper equipment. And your assuming the other company will make the profit and I do not. Now you are trying to give me a business lesson and I appreciate your help. But let me say this I am 3rd generation in this business, when I was 5 years old my dad used to let me shift the gears while he was driving. That was fun. I was taught how to hook up a car on the sling at 12, at 17 I was out towing. That being said I most likely have forgotten more about this business than most. Times are hard now and people are really shopping for price. Like I said you have to give good service and be competitive on price and you will be alright. I just do not have the overhead and I do enough to make a living, Thats all that matters really. I have said it once and I will say it again, When you run your company you should worry about your business and not the other guy down the road. The way I look at my competiters is like this, I am not out to be anybodys friend I am out to make a living, And do you know who my main competiter is? My brother! We tell each other all the time."Nothing personal its just business.
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Kam		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6740 07/24/2008 15:05 Featured Member July 2007 2007 Tow411 Member-of-the-Year Michigan	On the subject of training, I would have to disagree with the comment about the trucking industry offering more training than the towing industry. Perhaps there are more companies that offer training, but they don't train no where near the level of traing offered to the towing industry. The training the trucking industry offers is more at getting a CDL than how to actulaly drive the truck. I have been on both sides of the fence and I think there are a bunch more tractor trailers out there than wreckers. The two industries do both offer both educated and uneducated drivers, however. Lowballers will always have a presence in this industry no matter what we do. For those that do not worry about what their competition charges, take another look. Maybe worry isn't the best word. But having knowledge of what a competitor charges is good business practice. If you are going to be in business, you need to know where you stand with those looking at nothing but price only. I have towed many people who have noticed AI was a slight bit more than my competition, but all I can say is "Look what you get for a few bucks more." There are those in this country that are looking for nothing more than price. But, look what they have. A POS car, a POS house, POS clothing, etc. Then, there are those of us that look for what you get for your money. Compare Kia to Chevy or Ford. It's that simple. The economy hasn't improved in several years and low ballers will drop faster than new ones crop up. If you want to survive, don't work for nothing Do what OOIDA says..."Say NO to cheap freight!" Just make sure you brush your teeth before you go to bed and when you get up every morning. Things will be ok. *Member of the Michigan Troll Association©*
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body soother		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4440 07/24/2008 16:55 Featured Member May 2006 Oklahoma	I am like most of the others, do not set a price everyone has to live by. The best way of curing the problem is to get them to figure their cost, set your prices from your cost, not set them lower than the others, just so you can get the tows. To me, that has always beeen the problem, (not knowing your cost). The low baller who does the $20 tow, doesn't think about his cost of $25 to do this, he thinks how wonderful it is to be his on boss. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=jim
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general tow		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 596 07/24/2008 16:56 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	I assume nothing about you or your equip. My post is meant to be taken in general terms that can apply anywhere in this country. I'm glad you grew up in the business. So did I and I now have 30 yrs as an owner of my own business. Along the way I try not to forget things learned but try to keep learning and add to my knowledge. I also try to be friends with others in the industry. I will tell them that I can be the best friend they ever had and at the same time be the toughest competitor they ever faced on the street. It would be sad to have no friends in the business when issues arise affecting the industry and support is needed. Now lets put this thread back on track. I think it is about reaching some kind of general price structure or standard that allows for competition but is still fair to all in the business. Steve
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tlw towing		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 146 07/24/2008 18:37	General price structure, Thats called price fixing and I believe they could get us under the rico act. You may have to give up on that idea.
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general tow		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 597 07/25/2008 08:59 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	You are correct on the price fixing. That can not be done, however if there are minimum equip standards and qualifications that have to met to operate a tow truck then minimum pricing will take care of itself thru cost of operation and competition. Steve
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tlw towing		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 147 07/25/2008 09:49	I agree on qualifications, But on minimum equipment standards you are out in the wilderness on that one. The only thing that would work if everbody had to have annual DOT inspection. But If it means well everbody should have a 2007 truck or everbody should have a dynamic well I do not agree with that. Mechanical Inspections for safety, YES, dictating the types of equipment, NO.
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general tow		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 598 07/25/2008 10:39 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	Equip standards? Brand names or specific types cant be dictated. Safe operating condition and certain other requirements? YES! Here we see a pipe boom welded to end of bed and a come-a-long with 1/4 wire rope lifting and towing down the road. Thats just a small example of what we see, and it is not only here. See this in a lot of places around the country. It needs to be stopped as it is not only a matter of image, but is a huge safety problem. We dont mean to put anyone out of business but everyone needs to be safe, so how can this be accomplished. Steve
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scooby		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5518 07/25/2008 13:36 Featured Member September 2005 WreckMaster #050302 Supplier Member Moderator New York State	price fixing??? hmmm I wreck my car so I take my car to auto body shop A, I get a quote take my car to auto body shop C, its the same price now auto body shop A is state of the art, fancy building, paint booths, etc. They can kick out four paint jobs a day autobodyshop C is a mom and pop deal, maybe can paint one car every two days if that using the theories of price fixing that have been mentioned here, how can this be?????? I'm sure some of us here know where I'm going to go with this
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tlw towing		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 07/25/2008 14:57	Where did you come up with that? What general tow was talking about is a national price standard. If you had that then you would have price fixing. The body shop example was a reach at best.
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general tow		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 599 07/25/2008 15:42 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	Body shops work from a flat rate manual. There is a time given for each job performed. No matter how your shop is equiped or how long you take to do the job, the pay is the same for both. The small guy can probably take longer and put more money in his pocket. Bottom line. He can also drop the hourly price just a little and still make better money. No problem with that. One of the things we need to consider is this. In a shop or back yard enviornment if someone gets hurt it will be that person only. His bad luck if equip etc is defective. In towing if you drop a vehicle it will be the other innocent person driving along minding his own business that gets hurt. Who protects the public from the substandard towers who roam our streets doing it unsafely or with unsafe equip. Better pricing would allow these guys to bring themselves up to standard. We all know that there will always be discount service available but why does it have to be such an issue to be the cheapest. Steve
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tlw towing		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 150 07/25/2008 16:23	Because that is the nature of the beast. Greg
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scooby		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5519 07/26/2008 12:45 Featured Member September 2005 WreckMaster #050302 Supplier Member Moderator New York State	The body shop example was a reach at best. on that note, I've decided to back out of this whole conversation...sorry for the intrusion. Maybe another time. I somehow must be not understanding what the debate is here
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bigdog6800		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 73 07/26/2008 13:44 WreckMaster #050453	I agree with scooby... the body shop thing was not a reach, I follow ya scooby. I have been dealing with this in my area alot lately. One of my good relations (competitor) told me of a tow that we both priced for a heavy dealer, they got the tow and in later conversation with them they told me they lost 200.00 but they got the tow! I said huh...thats great. While you were gone I washed waxed and polished my truck. This is something that should be standardized for your area. In the body shop business our shop rate is controlled...If one shop goes up it has to be a majority rules type of thing this is controlled by the ins. companys. I was not going to even touch this after the far reach comment but I decided to elaborate on what I think scooby was hitting on.
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Kyresqtow		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2436 07/26/2008 17:05 WreckMaster #071094 Kentucky	For those of you that do not believe in price fixing... have you not been buying fuel lately??? Do you really believe every single company has the same costs to give the exact same price... that is price fixing at it's best. "If one shop goes up it has to be a majority rules type of thing this is controlled by the ins. companys." SO you let someone else set your rate for your shop??? Hmm wonder how that works... how do they know what your bills are for staying legal with all the EPA rules and such. I wonder what type of anti trust laws this violates Kevin L Kallmeyer 2nd generation tower ASE Certified Master Automobile/Lt. Truck Technician, ASE Certified Med/Hvy Truck Technician, SSI Dive Control Specialist, SSI Stress and Rescue Diver, Wreckmaster #071094 Cell Shop Website (859) 991-5760 (859) 341-6606 www.kensnky.com
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general tow		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 600 07/26/2008 17:35 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	Dont back out of it Scooby. This has been interesting to say the least. Some more input would be good. The body shop comparison is not that far out of line. The small shops do not cut their labor rate much from the big shops. All they have to do is drop just a little if they want the job. They dont cut rates in half or more because they dont have to. Why cant towers learn from this? Competition can be a good thing but cutting rates too far down to a losing situation makes no sense. Steve
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ibflat2		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5593 07/26/2008 18:38 Featured Member August 2004 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum WreckMaster #92190	ok I have a question about this and the idea of "price fixing".. If the body shops all have flat rate manuals, just like the repair shops have, then it dictates the "time it takes to do the job." Correct ? It does not dictate that you should use the book for the hours and then everyone bill the same hourly rates.. That could be classified as price fixing as I see it then... And since we are on price standards. I have to throw this one in here (yes Steve, Brett and Jan, you been waiting for this) Would you consider Price Per Pound billing to be price fixing as to say if you adopted Stormins 2002 rates for PPP as the national standard on heavy duty accident recovery. Would that be price fixing or not ???? Never mind that the rates are what is (was at that time) profitable for his operation while doing those kind of jobs. Thoughts anyone ???? A good reputation is more valuable than money. Publilius Syrus (~100 BC) Last Edited By: ibflat2 07/26/2008 18:42. Edited 1 time.
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FLCOWBOYINIRAQ		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1670 07/26/2008 18:39 Homebase Florida	One thing I can say is my boss Steve Webb does not, and will not cut throat. If someone calls we have set prices, plus a fuel charge. If they say so and so will do it for this much, he will tell them to call them back and have them do it. He has us all trained not to drop prices. I know from working in Polk County then going down South, and on the East coast, I could not believe the price cutting going on. I could not believe that one company was towing school buses for any where in the county with 60 ton rotators and charging what it would cost to have a normal brake down car towed. People know in our area if there is something to be recovered or towed who to call. There are only two companies in Lakeland and a few in Polk county. We have a great working relationship with all the local companies Flint's Ryan's 5A Brewington's All great compines and we never cut each others throats or second guess one of there recoveries. That is a great example of getting along. When there are PWOF meetings all these companies are fighting to pay for each other dinners, and drinks. I am proud to say All of us from Polk county and surrounding counties get along. Brett you have a good idea but you will always have someone out there ready to slice away at you. If customers want good service they will pay your rates period. John Fenshaw Lakeland F.L. Tikrit Iraq
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general tow		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 601 07/27/2008 15:11 PTRAA 1st Vice Pres Arkansas	Ok Richard, here goes my thoughts. PPP is not in any way price fixing, just as the flat rate manual is not price fixing. Shops can agree on a time to perform the job but the price charged per hr is not discussed by them. Each can set his own hourly charge. Same goes for PPP, it can be agreed that this is a fair way to arrive at a bill, but the actual cents per pound charged can and will change from area to area or even company to company in the same town. I feel that competition would exist but the profit margin would dictate how low the price went. No one would have a reason to lower prices into the red zone. It would only depend on how low a profit margin they wanted to operate on. Good service and equip with skilled operators would still allow the upper level companies to charge more and retain their customers. Price is not always the deciding factor on who is called, but a uniform way to set a price would be nice. Steve
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