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danielswt	question		Lead	[-]
Posts: 2668 05/31/2008 12:32 Featured Member April 2007 WreckMaster #020943 Kansas	Tags : None those of you that are finding it hard to get the neccesary money for a club call. is anybody charging the customer direct for overages that the club wont pay? for instance. with the rising cost's of doing buisness,i think everybody agree's that the m/c's will not be able to pay us anywhere close to the proper wages we need to operate. if a m/c is paying a 35.00 base rate we would then charge the customer 35.00 for the remainder of the hookup fee. we have never had a major problem with low paying club's.our base rates wernt allways the best,but we have allways had good mileage rates. and when you are in my area,that add's up.we usually drive alot of miles. we are considering doing this,hows it working for you?
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schu		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1090 05/31/2008 13:46 Minnesota	good luck , the customer would have to agree to that upfront and I am sure the club will have issues with it being that you signed a contract stating that you would do something for a set price and arent sticking to the contract no matter how low the rate may be
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jal70		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 75 05/31/2008 17:38	Daniel, I can offer you the MC perspective if this would help... In our case charging members outside of your contracted rates would be considered a breach of contract and be potential grounds for contract termination. The primary reason for this is that our clients expect that services will be rendered within the benefit limit they contracted for. If the members think they are buying a service for a given cost, then are surprised by additional charges the experience will be percieved as a negative one. The client would then begin to question even having a roadside program from increased complaints in this regard, then potentially terminate the program long term. Granted retail customers would give you a higher revenue per call, but there would be no guarantee that the customer would contact you for the service. My recommendation would be to contact your regional rep and prepare a case for rate increase in your area. The best approach would be to breakdown your cost per service, then compare to the total revenue per service you are achieving with the MC in question. (include the base rate and avg milage payments for en-route & loaded)....This will give an accurate representation of your total revenue per call, vs. just the hook rate. Hope this helps... Regards, Joseph Licciardi, Road America
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WEBOSLH		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 347 06/01/2008 07:30 Indiana	.............breach of contract.............????????? You have the nerve to accuse a service provider with a possiblility of breach of contract because your company won't help him cover expenses? He is only trying to survive and make an honest living. And I don't even know him, but he is a fellow tower. You have the nerve to use the term of "breach of contract" when your club has cancelled runs on me I have done over a year ago, AFTER I have provided the service? Breach of contract can have a broad general definition. And here is mine. When I do a run for ROAD AMERICA, I expect to be paid !!!!!!!!!! If I am not paid that is a BREACH OF CONTRACT!!!!! PERIOD! You and some of your staff have pomised me payment on two invoices from well over a year ago. One has been paid and the other, (4301204, Febuary 13, 2007), has not been paid even though you and the staffs e-mails and even talking to some of them promised it would be in the mail in 7 days which is about a month ago now. I won't go broke if you never pay it and no I won't re-submit the claim as it would show the incompitense of ROAD AMERICA STAFF and to me it would be worth the loss of that payment to show this inept-ness. I believe my rates are fair for my area, but what good would it do me to work for your company if I do a job and don't get paid? Something the car clubs are forgetting is that YOU ARE A CUSTOMER , NOT MY BOSS. Now I appreciate your candor , professed experience, and thick skin. But don't ever mention the words ..BREACH OF CONTRACT .... again. The only reason some of us towers have never pursued a court action is because an attorney won't listen or a court won't hear the case. I've tried. Now to the moderators , I sincerely apologize for my opinions stated here, do what you have to. To Mr. Parrish , if this is out of order let me know, and I apologize. As all of you can tell I believe,,,,,,, JAL70 crossed the line.
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jal70		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 77 06/01/2008 09:10	How exactly did I "cross the line"?? By simply stating the facts of an agreement.... Apparently you have had some negative experience with our organization, however without knowing the details it would not be intelligent for me to comment. I will say that the overwhelming majority of our contracted providers do not share your opinion. As stated in most club contracts, the ISP's responsibility does not end with performing the service, they must also invoice per the agreement. In our case we recommend that our service partners submit invoices on-line within 90-days of performing the service. The reason for this is we must show actual paid claim amounts to our providers in order to bill our clients, but we are also on a time limit of 90 -days to bill our client. Now understanding this, would it make sense to you that we would deliberately not pay our service partners?? It is difficult to recruit good quality service providers whom perform well, the last thing we are interested in is loosing a provider over a simple payment issue. With all due respect, I do not agree that my staff is "in-ept" all of my team have been trained and truly care about servicing our business partners. If you are currently a contracted provider with us and would like to discuss this with me, please contact me directly @ jlicciardi@road-america.com .
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fairway	About the delibrately not paying...	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 464 06/01/2008 09:27 WreckMaster #060291	I will add this, and I am not nor have I ever been contracted with RA. But there are some mc's out there that will play games in an effort not to pay. For example, you go to submit the invoice online but you can't get the correct mileage, you call the mc up and they tell you that you must submit a paper invoice which you then turn around and mail to them. You wait two weeks and call them, they tell you they haven't rec'd it call back in two weeks. You call two weeks later, same thing, this time to re-send it. Again you call and they say they haven't rec'd it, you have tracking info this time, you give date and time it was delivered, again they say they never got it. This goes on until the 90 days is up and the po is no longer valid. Or what happened to me recently with a large club, I was on direct deposit but switched banks, inbetween the change the club mailed me a paper check, which I never got. I gave it 2 weeks and called, was told to give it two more weeks. So I called back 2 weeks later (a month after it had been originally sent) after going around and around I was told that they have no way of tracking there checks, and they cannot issue me a new one until they recieve the original check back. Now how would they get the original check back? Or how about when the mc tells you that you have an invalid po#? And you have the actual fax with the po on it and they still tell you it is not valid, and you can't get anywhere because nobody there speaks english. Again, I have no experience with RA, but Mr. Licciardi, there are large mc's that do delibrately not pay on their promised po's. Edited: I just want everyone to know that this is in no way a bash against Mr. Licciardi or RA, but I just want to let Mr. Licciardi know that there are other clubs that may not operate under honest intentions and there are other clubs out there that breach thier contracts with contractors all day long. Last Edited By: fairway 06/01/2008 09:35. Edited 1 time.
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DixieTowingFL		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 63 06/01/2008 10:13	jal70 wrote: Daniel, I can offer you the MC perspective if this would help... In our case charging members outside of your contracted rates would be considered a breach of contract and be potential grounds for contract termination. The primary reason for this is that our clients expect that services will be rendered within the benefit limit they contracted for. If the members think they are buying a service for a given cost, then are surprised by additional charges the experience will be percieved as a negative one. The client would then begin to question even having a roadside program from increased complaints in this regard, then potentially terminate the program long term. Granted retail customers would give you a higher revenue per call, but there would be no guarantee that the customer would contact you for the service. My recommendation would be to contact your regional rep and prepare a case for rate increase in your area. The best approach would be to breakdown your cost per service, then compare to the total revenue per service you are achieving with the MC in question. (include the base rate and avg milage payments for en-route & loaded)....This will give an accurate representation of your total revenue per call, vs. just the hook rate. Hope this helps... Regards, Joseph Licciardi, Road America I understand what your saying, I appreciate the courage it took to step up to the plate and engage someone who does all the work, that your organization can not do. Motorclubs dont know the first thing about towing, hence why its all subcontract...they are nothing more then a NETWORK. However Jospeh, I can tell you I have spoken to my attorney and while you are correct that what he is purposing is a breach of contract. Lets keep in mind it works both ways, the MC is not immune from breach of contract themselves. and I personally charge all motorclub members for "extra" services, if it unnessisary to complete the job safely. for instance if I arrive for a "flat with no spare" and I can safely place the vehicle on the truck in its current condition and of course I assume the liability for that. the customer wants me to air up their tire.... well if i can safely do it without taking the time to get my hose out and connect to the tank then fill the tire then put it all away.....that is an unnessisary service. the MC doesnt pay for that to begin with why would we do extra things without compensation. But if the customer insist they want it done even though ive told them it isnt nessisary, then I make sure to tell them that the MC doesnt cover that and that they would have to pay for it. my attorney's feeling is that that is not a breach of the contract being that MC didnt put anything in their contract about "extra or unnessisary services". I would recomend to anyone that they do this. its no differnt then a customer wanting to privately purchase a plug for their tire at your shop. the MC doesnt cover plug only tire change. It is a private sale between my company and MY customer. I absolutely am not going to turn down a private sale. Last Edited By: DixieTowingFL 06/01/2008 10:17. Edited 2 times.
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kstowman		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 284 06/01/2008 23:45	Daniel, we do this all the time with auto clubs that we do not have contracts with....they call us and say we cover x amount of dollars, we tell them we charge X + Y, so we take a credit card or po for x amount and the customer pays Y.......credit card is ran and it is confirmed with the customer what the estimated overage will be before we ever run the call.....with one of the bigger auto clubs if we get into a situation that goes way above and beyond the call of duty such as a difficult recovery....we simply do not do the call on the auto club's ticket and advise the customer to submit our bill for reimbursement to their auto club(s) and their insurance.....maybe, just maybe each will reimburse them for at least part of their bill....if they are really lucky they might even make a little back if they have more than one!!!!
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danielswt		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2670 06/02/2008 10:37 Featured Member April 2007 WreckMaster #020943 Kansas	i appreciate your response jal70. #1 we as an industry can do a service for you ( all motor clubs ) and get short changed. #2 we can just say no to the call and still be money ahead. and in my area. THERE IS NO OTHER PROVIDERS i will do the call anyways per customer or dealer #3 we can charge the MC the contract rate and charge the customer for the overages. and possibly loose my calls from them beacuse of "breach" this isnt rocket science to see what is good for us. if a club wants to drop us due to a charge to a customer...let em.... because we wernt making money anyways. this isnt to everybody,only certain people that refuse to listen to the needs we have. i just honestly believe that with our expenses getting so high that no club will be able to pay us the rates we need to operate. so in return ,we will have to charge the customers for overages.
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kstowman		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 293 06/02/2008 10:48	well put Daniel
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tator		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 335 06/02/2008 11:18 WreckMaster #080532	If you have a contract with the MC or not if you are contracted with them you should read your contract. The bottom line is it is breech of contract if your rates are listed in the contract. Everybody wants to complain about the MC rates yet it is your own fault. You were the one dumb enough to agree to them. When they call me and say this is what we are going to pay I tell them to jump in their truck and come do it then. Number one is true Number two maybe true or false competition changes daily Number three is False If the motor club is calling you it wasn't your call in the first place. The Breech would be a legal action on your contract handled in the court system probably the end result after legal costs refunding money to ethier the customer the MC or both. In any business if you can't provide the service for the contrcted rate don't sign the contract. Personally I talked to several MCs and have refused to work that cheap. Is it costing me money? No. I'm losing lots of practice. Bud
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danielswt		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2672 06/02/2008 11:57 Featured Member April 2007 WreckMaster #020943 Kansas	You were the one dumb enough to agree to them. i think that is a little below the belt. nobody said i was gettting poor rates. i am looking into the future. the clubs will not be able to do buisness with us ( all of us ) with the current rate of expenses going through the roof ! as long as they continue thier path of doing buisness it will have to come to this. If the motor club is calling you it wasn't your call in the first place. i guess i dont understand that one. if a club calls me to do a service,it is my call. if i say NO to the club,and the dealer calls me to tow it in,its still my call.and if the owner calls me to tow thier car because the club cant find anybody, it is STILL my call.
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danielswt		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2673 06/02/2008 12:04 Featured Member April 2007 WreckMaster #020943 Kansas	why would this be any differnt than going to a docter and having to copay the visit with your ins company?
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tator		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 337 06/02/2008 13:03 WreckMaster #080532	If you agree to the copay up front it's not. The problem is the motor clubs don't tell their customers they will have a copay. If the club calls you are still working for the club not the customer. The problem I see in the club deal is they expect first class service yet pay fourth class rates. What I'm trying to say is how could you pay for that rollback on MC rates? Don't sign anything that doesn't have the surcharge built in. I have been to AAA s office in Denver they don't pay the bills on that place without nailing everybody they deal with customers and us included. It is the MC way. They present themselves as we are looking out for you (customers and us) when the truth is they look out for their own bank account and that's it. They send trucks here from 45 miles away to cover. It's funny to watch seen one tie down a $110,000.00 dollar BMW with a motorcycle strap that was to light to tie down my Harley. People waited three hours for them to get here saved the Club a whopping $150.00. If you don't watch out for yourself nobody else will. Bud
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danielswt		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2675 06/02/2008 13:27 Featured Member April 2007 WreckMaster #020943 Kansas	the copay would be taken care of before the call. we let the clubs know about it,and call the member before we leave. we are experimenting with it starting yesterday. January 2008 AMERICAN TOWMAN pg.14 i do not have a working scanner at the office to copy the article from. Last Edited By: danielswt 06/02/2008 13:30. Edited 1 time.
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tator		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 338 06/02/2008 13:55 WreckMaster #080532	The copay would have to be in everybodys contract. It doesn't matter. If you charge the club and the customer without it agreed in the contract with the club you will get sued over it. Should have it on paper with the club before you slam your sack in the door. Bud
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fairway		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 465 06/02/2008 13:59 WreckMaster #060291	The copay idea is exactly what we were discussing in Don's threads of where do we draw the line. Sorry, don't know how to link them.
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DixieTowingFL		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 74 06/02/2008 16:14	They are absolutely right, as much as I like the idea of copay... if you have a legal binding contract that is still in force you cant just change the rates. not without issueing a new contract signed by both parties. Im not really liking where this is heading. I hate the MC's as much as the next owner, My personal feelings is that they are going to be the death of private towing and this industry in general. However I certainley dont like the MC to put my back against the wall and strong arm me. Im not so sure i like the practice of us doing it to them either. We as an industry need to get smart in the contracts we agree too, and stick by them or cancel the contract. one of the two
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crazedkook	Just say No	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 417 10/06/1968 15:12	How about this if you do not like the rate you have agreed on with any motor club, just say no to the call, sooner or later the club will negotiate the rate you need to run. You may find that in allot of cases the customer will call you directly ( after they are informed they can't find someone to service them ) and then you get the rate you wish and on top of all that the customer can get reimbursed by their motor club. I am saying NO with GE calls right now and I have had several BMW owners and AARP members who have coverage call me directly and get the service faster, more professional and they get reimbursed for it. Oh and I make money for the service, Imagine that!! Again does not work for all but this works for me right now and maybe will work for you. John Lawson Lawson's Road Service Plainville MA02762 Http://www.lawsonsroadservice.com 774-306-6826
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TOWMAN27		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 89 06/02/2008 19:26 Connecticut	Maybe these fuel prices are a blessing? Hopefully we all look a little bit closer at our costs and sign contracts that make sense. I'm tired of getting shorted on the MC's we do anyway. We're only taking calls that make money or are near another call that we're already on. Pretty much nights and weekends aren't fitting into that criteria. Isn't it amazing how you decline a call Friday night or over the weekend and it comes in again on Monday or Tuesday?
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tator		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 339 06/02/2008 23:37 WreckMaster #080532	The only ones who will end our industry is us we will gladly do it to ourselves. In todays world the PDA can provide you with everything the MC can faster and cheaper in the long run. I get more work off the net than a club could provide here. They need us more than we need them. Example in your area how many MC owned trucks are working? My area None. Reason we as idiots will do it cheaper than they can. I have made mistakes and done a job to cheap not by contract. Daniel it was not hitting below the belt if the rate was that good you would not be trying to compensate by charging overages. We were getting better than 35 in the 70s when I was helping the old man. Don't Lie To Yourself. Bud
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